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Is Your Dog’s Rough Play Appropriate?
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First, we need to determine whether both dogs are enjoying themselves and want to continue playing. Look at their postures and facial expressions. Their movements may be light, bouncy and exaggerated and they may have relaxed, open mouths (like those on Bark’s Smiling Dog pages). Watch for play signals, which can often be quite subtle — a quick dip or bounce rather than a full-blown play bow. If you’re not certain that a dog really wants to be playing, try briefly holding that dog back. If she presses her body into yours and avoids looking at the other dog, she’s showing relief at the interruption and you should help her avoid the other dog. If she pulls against your grip in an attempt to interact with the other dog, release her. If she runs toward the other dog or directs a play signal in his direction, then she is saying that she wants to keep playing. An interaction like the one just described is straightforward and easy to read. However, what about instances that may not be so clear-cut? We encourage you to discard any preconceived notions about what dog play should and should not look like — at least for the time being. For example, are traditional “no-no’s” like neck biting, rearing up, body-slamming and repeated pinning by one dog ever okay when two dogs are playing? It all depends on the individual dogs and the kind of relationship they have with one another. Consider an example of a close canine friendship founded on unorthodox play. When Sage, a one-year-old German Shepherd, first met Sam, a four-monthold Labradoodle, he was very rough with Sam. He would pin Sam with a neck bite every few seconds. No sooner would Sam stand up than Sage would neckbite him and flip him on his back again. At first, we thought that Sage might be too rough for Sam, so we would intervene by holding one or both of them back. However, each time, Sam would try his hardest to get to Sage, despite the inevitable pinning. As Sam grew larger, eventually matching Sage in weight, Sage added body slams and mounting to their play. With the exception of frequent rear-ups (in which they adopted identical roles, facing one another and boxing with their front paws), Sage usually maintained the more assertive role (neck biting, pinning, slamming and so forth). Yet, because Sam was always an enthusiastic partner, we let them continue to play together. To this day, their play remains asymmetrical; Sage repeatedly brings down Sam with neck bites and continues to bite Sam’s neck once he is down. Sam wriggles on the ground and flails at Sage with his legs while Sage, growling loudly, keeps biting Sam’s neck. More than once, bystanders have thought the dogs were fighting for real, but Sage’s neck bites never harm Sam, and Sam never stops smiling, even when he’s down. Sometimes, when Sage is done playing but Sam is not, he’ll approach Sage and offer his neck, as though saying, “Here’s my neck; go ahead and pin me.” This move always succeeds; it’s an offer Sage cannot resist. With Sage and Sam, allowing play to continue was the right decision. Their early play interactions burgeoned into a lifelong friendship. Even today, the two middle-aged boys will sometimes play together for five hours at a stretch, stopping only occasionally for brief rests. When they are finally done, they often lie together, completely relaxed, with their bodies touching. Their faces are loose and smiling, and they seem almost drunk in an endorphin-induced haze. This relationship shows that play does not necessarily have to be fair or balanced in order for two dogs to want to play with one another. Years ago, scientists proposed a 50/50 rule: for two individuals to engage in play, they must take turns being in the more assertive role. Scientists thought that if one individual was too rough or forceful (e.g., pinning her partner much more often than she was being pinned), the other dog would not want to play. Until our research, this proposition was never empirically tested. |
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Wow I found this extremely interesting and love to see smart people put stuff like this into actual words. I am serious, I love it! I would just like to add that multi-dog play fighting is not always a bad thing. Each dog takes turns playing the "victim," although I am not sure why and I am no expert (just someone who lives with a lot of dogs), but I would be eager to read the "why" others may perceive and I must get this magazine!! Here is a video of a lot of the play maneuvers mentioned in this article. Here are actual PitBulls@Play: http://youtu.be/HxtJWy9UQNM
Is there anytime when one should intervene? Say when one dog is, assuming, 'playfully' and happily body pinning while over exuberant mouthing of fore-limbs and ignoring communicative signals of 'play' that is getting too rough by the pinned. Your article is interesting but seems to imply that overly rough play is benign and we can do more harm intervening and simply allow predominant one sided roughness to course out. I have and will always intervene when it's blatant bullying that going on. Bullying by 100% forceful body pinning or neck pinning/holding, tactfully biting hard on lower fore-limbs and ignoring whines/yelps of the pinned. To say this doesn't happen or is not the case is contrary to my experiences..is it play?..perhaps..is it acceptable play..definitely not. When the pinned get up and walk with noticeable lameness is the benchmark that 'play' was allowed to escalate beyond good intention. I believe play can transform into blind prey mode..that must be addressed. All the show - real play is all much show and exaggeration - of growls and exposed teeth and false attacks, rolling, side slamming and such notwithstanding.
I was glad to read your view on the acceptable/unacceptable aspects of play-fighting. I have been searching for sites to address my current dilemma. I have been a Bullmastiff owner (in pairs, male & female) for over 20 years. They have always enjoyed play-wrestling, and always known when to stop. Resident dog has always kept incoming dog in place.
However, I have just taken a 13-month rescue male Bullmastiff with a normally lovely and docile nature, to live alongside my 5-year old bitch, since her partner died in January. Trouble is, the newcomer is a big dog and he is a dominant play bully. She has too kind in nature to turn on him to stop. He heads her off when she wants to come in from the garden, pushes her to the ground (with great force), chews her legs, etc.. On Sunday evening she came in lame after I rescued the situation. On Monday morning I had to take her to the vet with a badly sprained right shoulder and have kept them apart since.
I am at a loss as to what to do to stop this manic bullying play behaviour. I live in Wales where training collars are banned.
Please help me with suggestions.
Hi Viv, I'm not a trainer but am very involved with my dogs, one being a therapy dog. We experienced a similar situation when we first adopted our male dog (pit-pointer mix) from the shelter. At 1 yr. old he had never learned how to play with other dogs. He was a bull in a china shop! He didn't know how to go around people on trails, he'd go right through me, with me ending up on the ground, or would slam into other dogs until he learned that was rude.
The shelter thought our female (pit-Lab) would put him in his place, but she was too kind and we thought way too tolerant of his shenanigans. Having said that, even from the beginning he never harmed her. With lots of work and showing Dom what our expectations were and stepping in often to tone down his play (he did make her squeal in the beginning because his neck bites were too hard and to this day he bites her legs but now she bites his), he has become an awesome dog who now gets it.
Your description reminds me exactly of how Domino acted the first few months. Inca was so tolerant. She's my love! We would watch her closely and if it looked like he was bugging her, we would separate them or have a time out 'til he calmed down and could play more gently. Hopefully with lots of work, your 13-mo-old dog will start to understand what pleases you and figure out that it's a lot more fun to have a playmate than one who runs away and avoids him.
The good thing about Dom is he was never aggressive in any manner, just out of control because he had no training other than the little the shelter had given him. He's a wonderful 3+ now and it's so fun to watch my two dogs enjoy each other's company. He also goes out 3 times a week with a company called Trail Dogs that takes up to 10 dogs in a van to legal off leash hiking areas, so he's very socialized. His sister goes other days to give them a break from each other. He is not dog park material, though. The one think lacking is his understanding of very submissive dogs. He's a rambunctious player and it's best for him to have rambuctious friends at this point in his life. His play manner can intimidate shy dogs, which is not appropriate. And I never allow him off leash around small dogs. I fear he will step on them.
I would be interested to know if the dogs who played one-sided games with a mate, played the same way with other dogs. If so, did aggression ever result? IOW were they practising 'anti-social' behaviour with a partner that didn't mind, therefore learning poor skills with others?
Thank you so much for this insightful and well-researched article. It has put my mind to ease, after having other dog owners insist that my dog was playing too roughly and teaching their dog bad behaviours when obviously their dog was still desperate to play. It seems logical to me that dogs need to work out their own levels of appropriate play and most dogs are quite verbal when that level has been reached.
Great help! I have two "St. Pyrenees" so I want to know what to expect as they geet larger. My big fear is if they get tangled in leashes or ropes. Will they know enough to recognize something is wrong and stop playing, or will they start to think the other is a real threat and escalate into fighting. The thought of stepping between two 130 pound fighting dogs to untangle leashes isn't good. I try to keep them tied far enough apart to eliminate the possibility but I still worry.
TF
We had a little three pack of dogs. One was a bully breed/boxer mix and she was the most alpha dog I have ever seen. She could just walk around the dog park and other dogs would get out of her way. The other two were GSD/Doberman and boxer/rottie.
However, when the three played, the alpha dog was always "it". The GSD X would grab her by the scruff, and the boxer/rottie would gnaw on a hind leg, and she was dragged and thrown and chewed on and she always came back for more.
People would walk by, and they'd be horrified, because we were laughing our heads off. Such cruelty!
We had to explain that 1) the one who appears to be getting beaten up has a huge smile on her face and 2) she's the alpha dog.
They are all gone now, but we got countless hours of entertainment from them.
Very interesting article. I have two toy dogs, both bitches. I had read so much about the problems that can arise if two females take against each other, that I monitored them closely when they were young, and intervened if play inside the house seemed to be heading towards bullying or getting over excited. The end result is that they play very well together - noisily and with lots of play fighting outside, very quietly and with lots of mouth wrestling inside. I am more experienced now, and would probably let things run on a bit longer, but it seems my anxious intervention made little difference except to teach them that if play got too noisy "Mum" might stop the fun, so it was better to play quietly! (There is a very quiet game of Keep Away involving a knitted Christmas Pudding going on as I type...)
What an excellent article! Having two pit mixes that fit the "sound like they are killing each other" category when they play, I have noticed that in 100s of bouts of play only once did my female get a scrape on her face. I'm still not sure whether it was a branch from the bush they were tussling under or my other dog's tooth or nail. I know I've been the recipient of very leery looks when they play like that with each other at legal off-leash areas or on trails, so I try to discourage that sort of play outside the home so people don't freak out, especially other dog owners whose dogs do not play in that manner. I've also noticed that neither dog plays that intensely with other dogs, only each other.
This article makes me feel good about my dogs' play with each other. Thank you.
Excellent article. I have two females who I adopted from a shelter together at roughly one year of age. They did not know each other before that. When they play they sound ferocious: they snarl, they show their teeth, snap their teeth and they mount each other constantly. In fact the signal to start play is often one dog growling at the other or snapping their teeth. I have had these dogs for over 4 years now and their play has never turned into a real fight. I know a couple of people in the dog park think I let them go too far -- one man even tried to separate them knowing they were both my charges. I know my dogs -- they love to play like this; it makes them happy. Why should I deprive them of doing what they love?
I have 2 bulldogs one from a puppy and another adopted. My puppy Mia (almost 2 now) loves to play and is almost always the one who invites it by bowing, barking and tag! (runs by and nudges). Jersey is adopted. The 2 were best friends right from the start. The share toys, bones, food etc...my question is Jersey does not temper her bite during play and after a year Mia now has several scars on her neck and shoulders. They have never fought and Mia never gets angry and always go back for more.
Is there something I can do to help her play nicer?
I have worked with Jersey intensively since were adopted her but she was abused very badly and is terrified of men. Other dogs want to attack her during play so Mia is all she has. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I just found this article by coincidence but it's was just the thing I was looking for!
My family and I recently got a new puppy, she was 6 weeks old when we got her now she is a playful little 15 week old and at first we were worried that our older dogs might not take to her. They didn't. Our oldest dog who is outside is 9 year old, and our second oldest dog who is inside is 2 years and four months. Our 2 year old Shih Tzu would do everything in his power to avoid interacting with the puppy the first couple of weeks. It worried us. Then on the third week he finally came around and started mouthing our female puppy and they would chase each other around for a little while until one was tired and then they would both knock out.
As our puppy got older her playing got a little more aggressive as she is now almost half the size of our 2 year old. I had never had more then one dog inside at a time so the whole play fighting thing was all new to me and I was always unsure if their playing was too rough or not. Now I know, thanks to this very helpful article. Everything said here is exactly what my two dogs do. So it really helped give me peace of mind and I can now feel a little more comfortable letting them play with each other rather then worrying if I should stop them or not.
Thank you very much for taking time out to read this.
-Carol
We have a 9 month old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (female) and just got a new 11 month old Cavalier (also female). The 9 month old is a bit bigger than the 11 month old (who is smaller and has a more delicate tempermant). The 9 month old always wants to play - she exhibits a strong "herding" aggressive like behavior. Wrestles with her, but while doing so, tugs on the 11 month old's ears and tries to grab (bite) her legs. The 11 month old likes to play if it is more gentle, but lately the 9 month old is playing rough all the time - to the point that our 9 month girl runs to us with this "save me" look. She pesters the 9 month old when going down steps, which makes her too scared to continue down the steps. How can we get the "bully-herder" Cavalier to play more gently?
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I have been walking my my 18-month Cocker Spaniel with my friends 2 Tibetans. They are brother and sister and four months younger. Recently my dog is totally dominating the female with rough play to the extent that she is hurting her and cornering her. I feel compelled to intervene and my dog completely ignores me while I am trying to get her back on the lead. My dog is always good when we out with other dogs, however, she is too excited when we meet up with these. I almost wish her dog would go for her so that we can all enjoy the walk together. Any ideas please?
I have recently got a 6 week old bitch staffy, I already have a 4 year old bitch staffy. They play constantly. The puppy is very full on with bites where as the oonejust knocks her or pins her down. I'm worried if allow this the pup will grow up aggressive or my older dog wil snap one day. Any advice
Despite the article promoting friendly play I would intervene when any biting is full on. I have the same situation and my puppy is in the hospital today with its front top lateral incisors nearly broken off by the older dog who bit him on the upper jaw putting puncture marks on the nose and nearly biting out his incisors. I would be happy to send you a picture of where our allowed play fighting led. Not pretty--For the record my puppy was smiling again shortly after the incident but he will have gapped teeth for life and I have a $400.00 bill. ( I know the article also mentions not allowing play with Toys present but they wont know the difference if you are out of the room. This was with a toy while I was away and they had never done this before. Better safe than sorry.
What a great article! It's nice to read one that's research based yet written in an accessible style, and it gave me heart to know that you've not seen play fighting turn into real fighting between dogs with established relationships. We have two young female Siberian Husky rescues (16 months and 14 months). They're both well socialized with other dogs, but definitely sound like real "haters" when they play and are alarming to those who aren't used to that sort of play style, but they appear to love it! One is 25% heavier, uses that weigh differential to her advantage, and seems to always feel she's got to assert dominance. The other is dainty, but incredibly fast and agile, and though she can hold her own pretty well, she doesn't seem to mind being the submissive one as long as she can entice the other (or us) to play. They play to exhaustion, then often lay down by each other, happy and relaxed. We do notice that our bigger girl will gang up on our daintier one in multi-dog situations (like at dog parks) or really seem to bully her in an unwelcome way once she gets home if she's been in a multi-dog situation that day where she's had to submit to other dogs a lot (as if she's got to reassert her role as top dog). That does concern us, as we don't want their relationship to sour or a problem to escalate... and though working on recall training, as with a lot of huskies, it's a big challenge, so we aren't always able to intervene as effectively as we'd like. I'll look for your other article mentioned, as it sounds like it might be helpful and shed more light on those situations. Thanks again for writing this. Very interesting stuff!
THis sounds exactly like our dogs. We have a 6 month old and a 5 month old. Both pit bulls who we rescued at the same time. They get really rough and it makes me worry sometimes but this article and your comment sound pretty similar to my dogs, however, both of my dogs have scratches all over them and I'm not really ok with that.
My dogs fight play like this. I try to keep in mind that if no one is yelping, it's OK. They do enjoy a nice play fight with soft neck bites. A rough real fight between them is obvious (loud, stressful, and out of control) and I break them up. The real fights seem to be slowly coming less and less often. Good. My concern is taking the new dog to the dog park while he is still exhibiting these behaviors. If he is even fake-biting a strange dog, either the dog or the owner may take it wrong. How can I be sure he will know this behavior is OK with his housemate, but not with other dogs?
I was so glad to see your page on dog behavior when it comes to play because I got my dog from a shelter I've had him for 4 weeks now and for the last two weeks I've been taking him to dog parks. He is 2 yrs. old and at first I adopted him and his brother but his brother was very aggressive and dominating over him and dominating over me. His brother also ate his food so he was the smallest of the two; therefore, I returned his brother to the shelter and kept him. His personality started coming out, he gets along well with children, people in general, and other dogs. The only thing that would get him to fight is when a dog try and mount him like his brother constantly done, and they would constantly fight because he wasn't going to let his brother dominate him. For two weeks at the dog parks meeting different dogs he has never been aggressive; however, today at the dog park he ways playing with a dog larger than him but way younger than him the dog was only 8 months old and he is 2 yrs. old, he played with the 8 month old as he usually did with older dogs but I did notice one difference and that was he kept jumping on the dog then he would bark to be chased and when the dog chased him they were having a lot of fun then they stopped and my dog who is 2 yrs. old kept barking as he normally does when he plays with the older dogs but this seemed to turn into a fight that took me and the other owner time to stop they both were grawling and barking and biting at one another and when we finally where able to pull them apart they settled but it seemed like they wanted each other again. The only problem with it is that it looked too much like a fight to me and the owner and my dog initiated it by barking. For now I'm afraid to take him back to dog parks even though they have been good for him but he doesn't come to me when I call him so that's not good. I still don't know what to do but at least by reading your page I see that my dog still may be OK. Thank you.
My 11 week old akta pup is bigger than my neighbors King Charles spaniel. He plays pretty rough with him even the the kcs isn't crying, pup is biting/holding on to his ear and lip. As he gets even bigger this seems like it could cause a lot of tension among the two.